Greg welcomes his associate and friend, Kurt Kimmich, to discuss the blessings of raising a child who has
Down syndrome. Kurt shares some of the joys that Ben has brought into his family’s lives, the lessons they’ve
learned, and their hopes for the future. You’ll find out how Ben has taught Kurt perspective, kindness,
patience, and more. For anyone who is close to a child with special needs, or anyone who needs to hear an
uplifting story of family, love, and compassion, this episode is for you.
Confluence Financial Partners — Blessings: Kurt Kimmich | Episode 6
Greg: If the world could see through the eyes of a person with Down syndrome, it would be a better place. Imagine that.
This is Greg Weimer and today I have the opportunity/privilege to be with a longtime friend and associate here at Confluence. Kurt Kimmich. Welcome Kurt.
Kurt: Thank you Greg. Happy to be here.
Greg: All right, so do you remember where we met? Do you remember when we met? Do you remember what you were doing when we met?
Kurt: Yes, only because you reminded me.
Greg: So, Kurt and I, we, it was 1987, and we worked for a firm back then — I worked for a firm back then, with Kurt’s father Ron, who is actually someone I looked up to a lot. He was an absolute gentleman in the business. And you were his date in Bermuda and I brought my current wife, Laurie, back then and I—she’s my wife now, she wasn’t my wife at that moment. It was 1987, we got married actually in 1989. So, we were in Bermuda and Ron brought his son, Kurt.
And here we are literally 30 years ago…
Kurt: 32 years.
Greg: 32 years ago. And we’re sitting here as associates. How’d that happen?
Kurt: Yeah, I was still in college. I appreciated that trip from my dad, that’s for sure.
Greg: That’s a cool thing, right? Although, I think you point out like, you’re in college, as if to suggest I was a lot older, which I wasn’t. I was actually one year out of college, just to set the record straight. So, you’re not that much younger.
Kurt: No. I look younger.
Kurt: Much younger.
Greg: So, I’ve had the opportunity to watch Kurt be a great financial advisor. I’ve watched Kurt grow his family to a — call it from a college kid to now. Six children, and he and his wife Amy have six children. And what we’re going to talk about today is maybe we talk a little bit about the business and lessons you’ve learned along the way.
But I’ve watched you do a lot of great things and I’ve watched a lot of your accomplishments. But I have to tell you, the one that stands out to me the most is how you’ve raised your children and how you have just a wonderful family. And specifically, Kurt and Amy have a son, Ben, who has Down syndrome. And you know, I think probably, when that first occurred, when you found out that you had a child that was going to have Down syndrome, you know, it may not have been viewed as much of a blessing, but watching you guys turn that into an absolute blessing and watch how it’s effected your family has been an inspiration. So, I think it goes to the saying, “What you dwell on, you multiply,” and I can tell you, the Kimmich family, they’re all about dwelling on the positives, which is cool.
So, Kurt, just want to take us through, you know, when you found out that you are going to be blessed with a child with Down syndrome and how you thought about that?
Kurt: Sure. Happy to. And I apologize if I get a little emotional, but this is a near and dear topic to me.
Obviously, my wife, I would be in deep trouble if I didn’t start by saying she is, without a doubt, the cog that keeps our family wheel moving in the right direction. She is the strongest, most compassionate person I’ve ever met, and she is devoted 100% to her family at all times, which makes my life a lot easier. But we have six children and there is a 13-year age range between the six and two girls and then four boys.
And we knew all along we wanted to have a larger family. I think once we got to three or four, it just, you know, sort of started blending together.
Greg: But, that’s a little aggressive.
Kurt: That is a little aggressive in today’s world.
Greg: We are more conservative investors then the Kimmich family was with how they grew their family.
Kurt: That is an accurate statement. Yes. And when we found out that we were expecting our sixth child, as any parent does, they go through all of the doctor’s appointments, and the sonograms, and the different conversations that you have with medical professionals. One of them surrounded the results of our sonogram, which showed a slight dark spot in our son’s heart, which is one of the characteristics, possibly, of Down syndrome.
Greg: Give me the, you shared the odds with me, so, if there’s a dark spot—
Kurt: We were told that there was a 1 in 20 chance that our child was going to be born with Down syndrome. And as Greg alluded to earlier, I am the eternal optimist. And so I immediately was saying to my wife, well, that’s only a 5% chance, where she was looking at the opposite of that, and so, we went through our normal doctor’s appointments and, you know, I remember very vividly walking into the office of a very young healthcare professional. You know, again, young — I was almost 40 at the time when Ben was born and this young lady was probably in her mid-twenties, and I knew exactly what she was going to be talking to Amy and I about.
Greg: How’d you know?
Kurt: Well, because I had read, when I knew that there was a 5% chance, I knew that the standard procedure for medical personnel was to give you your options on dealing with a child with special needs. And, unfortunately, to not beat around the bush, they were prepared to talk to us about how we could end the pregnancy if we wanted to.
And so, I very politely, to the young lady, I said, I know what you’re going to tell us and I just want to very politely tell you that it’s our intention to raise this child just like we are raising our other five children. But if you need to tell me what you are required to tell me, go ahead. And she absolutely did that. And she spent 10 or 15 minutes letting us know exactly how we could terminate — who is now Ben — if we wanted to. And that was hard. That’s, that’s a hard conversation to have.
Greg: Was her view that like, here’s all the challenges? So it wasn’t, it wasn’t a balanced view of a having a special needs child? It was…
Kurt: No, it was not balanced at all. It was definitely “Here is how you can get rid of this problem.”
Greg: Is it still like that?
Kurt: So. no. No, actually that’s one of the really incredible experiences that Amy and I have had over the last, you know, Ben is 12 now, over the last 12 years, is so much information is made available to young parents who are in a similar situation to what we were 12 years ago.
And it’s all about information. You know, anything in life that you don’t understand, the more you research it and the more you a fact-find about it, the more comfortable you feel with it. And I think that’s, you know, if you’re gonna buy a car, you’re going to go out and you’re going to research all the different types of cars and which ones are good and which ones aren’t, and which ones need repairs and not. So, as you gather more information, you become more comfortable.
So, we are blessed now, as a society, where there due to the countless hours and days and years of effort by a lot of advocates across the country, where healthcare providers are now required to provide the positives as well as the negatives. But they allow the parent to make an informed decision with all of the information.
Greg: Okay. So, in that moment, what was going through your mind? What did you and Amy talk about?
Because it had to be, although you are committed to raising Ben like you were your other five children, it had to be a “holy cow” moment.
Kurt: Oh, absolutely. And I didn’t share, you know, I’m very private in many regards and I didn’t share initially how I felt inside about the news.
Greg: You didn’t share to Amy or you didn’t share to anybody?
Kurt: Not to anybody. Because again, you know, I’m the eternal optimist and I sort of pride myself on always finding the positive in any situation.
Greg: You do. I mean, in a very professional way. You don’t take this wrong, you’re, you’re a little bit like Tigger, right? You just like sort of bounce around, you’re happy.
Kurt: It’s a great analogy. I do have a high energy level, too and I don’t sleep much. And I do like Tigger sort of a cool character.
Greg: He’s awesome.
Kurt: When you have five children under the age of 13 already at home and you are told that your child may be born with a special need, you immediately think of all the negatives.
And obviously my mindset today is just the opposite. But at the time, and I’ll share this as sort of an interesting little sidebar. I have a dear friend of ours that lives in Murrysville where we do, and I’ll just refer to her as Kate. And Kate is an advocate for special needs children. And when Kate found out that Amy and I were going to have a child with special needs, she told me that she cried tears of joy. And I found that fascinating in many regards, but initially I was thinking, she’s out of her mind. I have five little kids at home and now we’re going to be… burdened, for lack of better word, with all of the challenges that go along with raising a special needs child.
And I struggled, for well over a year, with the fact that I felt that way, because once Ben was born and once we held him, and once we saw our children interacting with him, I had terrible feelings of guilt for a long, long time that I felt that way.
And only after the last 12 years of being Ben’s dad and sort of turning into somewhat of an advocate myself, because another interesting little side note is I have two friends of mine. You know, I went to a small college just north of Pittsburgh and you know, only about 1,500 students and two of my college teammates, two of my fraternity brothers, also have sons with Down syndrome. Which is really, the odds of that, statistically are mind boggling, which led me to think our chef at our fraternity house was feeding us something that caused this to happen because it’s just, it’s, it’s astronomical. One of my buddies had his son about six years before, five years before Ben was born. And my other buddy, his son just celebrated his fifth birthday yesterday. So, all three children are about the same distance apart.
Mike was a great source of guidance for me as I was going through all of the question and answer. And I feel like I’ve been a very good source to Rob as he’s gone through some of the challenges as well. And it’s sort of interesting that people were put in your life to help support you through what you think are difficult times, but they’re just—
Greg: Yeah. Let me, let me back up a sec. Because today there’s people receiving news that they have a special needs child. Today there’s people receiving news that their son or daughter could potentially have Down syndrome. Or just receiving some type of other news that’s viewed as challenging and as you put it, quote burden. If you could tell those parents right now, go back to
— curtain, Amy, 12 years ago, you know, if you could tell those parents one thing, what would that be?
Kurt: Enjoy it. You may not think it’s a blessing, but you will quickly realize that it is the greatest blessing that you’ve ever had.
Greg: All right, let’s go there. So, you said quickly, I remember when you just said, “when, the first time I held Ben,” when you watched what it did to your kids. And I watched, you know, Katie just two minutes ago, Ben’s here today, by the way. I just watched Katie with Ben. I watched Ben and your whole family at Maggie’s wedding. I watched you guys all have dinner when my wife and I came out to have dinner with you and your family. And I watched how the boys interact and it’s just flat out awesome.
So, I believe you when it says, when you say it’s a blessing. Today, 12 years later, when did you realize, “Hey, this really is a blessing and we should have tears of joy”?
Kurt: It took a bit. It, you know, because again, it takes your mind some time to sorta wrap your — just the enormity of, again, having six children in and of itself, creates a lot of a lot of challenges.
Greg: Babies in general are—
Greg: A lot of work, stressful. It’s just difficult, for all the moms and dads out there. It’s tough now. It ends up being great, Right? But at first, you know, when they’re not sleeping and they’re fussy. It’s always a challenge. Are there more specific challenges when you have a special needs or Down syndrome, those first couple and difficult years?
Kurt: Well, I think, I think you don’t understand or realize at first how big of a challenge it may be.
Because again, we’re very blessed. Ben is a very high functioning, interactive, healthy — he is by far been the healthiest of our six children. He’s never had an ear infection. Which again, is just, you
know, statistically it’s so unusual for, you know, children with Downs syndrome typically have heart issues, they have vision issues, they have hearing issues. Our son has none of those. Some of my older boys on occasion in a fit of frustration with Ben acting out at home, have exclaimed quite proudly or loudly, “I’m not sure Ben even has Down syndrome.” Because his mind works in a way that is not—
Greg: You think he’s faking it?
Kurt: Sometimes I do. And I’ll tell you one real quick story that absolutely signifies this. You know how cars have child locks on them? We were in the driveway one day and I forgot something in the house and my three boys were in the back seat and Ben was in the third row. And I said, guys, keep an eye on Ben, I have to run inside real quick. I was inside for no more than 30 seconds. And I came out, my three older sons are still in the car. My son Ben is standing in the driveway and the doors are locked. When Ben got out of the car, he knew enough to flip the child lock on the door when it was open, and he immediately shut it so his brothers couldn’t get out of the car. So, tell me that thought process, which I thought was ingenious.
Kurt: And I am sitting there watching my 16, 14 and 12-year-old sons in the car locked in the car by a child with Down syndrome.
Greg: So, let’s talk about some of the blessings. I mean your family has certainly learned a lot over the last 12 years. What are some of the blessings of Ben and, you know, as you observe the impact he’s had on your family?
Kurt: So, one thing jumps to mind very quickly is, you know, my father who you referenced earlier (and I thank you for all your kind words). My father has dementia and he has late-stage dementia. And so, we have him in a nursing home in Murrysville near us and he is just extraordinarily well cared for and he’s very happy and content. And I take Ben to see him quite often. And walking into a memory care facility is a difficult, sometimes, task. And when Ben walks in there, the whole place lights up. He walks around to every single patient and he talks to them and he holds their hands and he tells the women how pretty they are and that he loves how their hair is. And watching elderly people react to Ben the way that they do is — I’m convinced that God put him into our lives at that particular time for moments like that. Because you wonder whether or not these folks have
any family members coming to see them or to spend time with them or to interact with them and Ben sees no differences in people. And that’s one of the greatest lessons that I get from being his dad every day is to look at life through unfiltered glasses because Ben is truly unfiltered, good and bad. He says, and does what he thinks and wants to do.
And that’s very refreshing in many ways because you know exactly where he’s coming from at all times. So, when he gives you a hug and he tells you that he loves you, you know that he’s telling you the truth.
Greg: I was walking down the hall and I saw him, and he came over to give me a hug. And it wasn’t, I’m going to hug you because I felt like I have to hug you. It was, I’m gonna hug you because I want to hug you. Because he was patting me on the back as he was hugging me. It was just a warm hug.
Kurt: Every day when I come home from work—
Greg: You told me this.
Kurt: —Ben’s waiting for me and it’s like Christmas morning when he hears my voice. And we joke within the house about “Who’s your favorite kid?” Amy and I, and of course Amy gives the, “Oh, I love you all the same.” And I answered no, I absolutely have favorites.
But Ben, when I come home and I kid you not, it’s every single day when I come home, he comes in, he jumps into my arms like it’s the first time he seen me in two years.
And he always says, “Dad, how was work?” And most days I say, “You know what? Work was awesome.” And he’s like, “Awesome!” He goes, “That’s great!” And I know that he genuinely wants to know how my day was.
Kurt: Now, on occasion, I say, “You know what, Ben, today wasn’t such a good day.” You know, the market was down 500 points or whatever. And the expression on his face drops and his shoulders drop and he’s like, “I’m sorry dad.” And just the genuine compassion for helping me through a difficult day, you just don’t get that from everybody and it’s — I can’t explain it, I can only live it.
And I just, I tell everybody I come in contact with, I wish you had the opportunity, for one day, to just experience what I experience every day.
Greg: Yeah. But you, you took it one step further than that. When we were talking several weeks ago, you said to me you would give anything to live a day in Ben’s shoes, right?
Kurt: That’s true. March 21st is a very special day in our house. So that is World Down Syndrome Day. So, children with Down syndrome have an extra 21st chromosome. So, March 21, 3/21, signifies World Down Syndrome Day. And I send an email out every year. I started this five or six years ago, I guess, maybe more. And I send it to everybody in my address book: clients, friends, relatives, anybody that I’ve come in contact with, just so I can share what is a very, very special day to me. And I put in there that it’s my favorite day of the year. And I have several bullet points that I put in the email that sort of encompasses my life with Ben. And I do put — and I actually have a copy of it right here in front of me — that I do put, “if I could only live one day in Ben’s world, a world with no jealousy, spite, or distrust, only genuine care for others.” And I put at the bottom, “think about it and imagine what a better world we would all live in if we all had this attitude.” And that’s Ben, every day. That’s his attitude. He’s not jealous. He’s not spiteful. He, you know, he will show anger every once in a while, but it’s very … few and far between. But he lives the way I want to live.
Kurt: He’s just pure, right? And that’s, that’s obviously somewhat subjective, but I’ll make it quantitative by reading some statistics that absolutely back— that we found — that absolutely back up what you’re saying: 97% of people with Down syndrome like who they are. Let me give you some stats on why that could be: nearly 99% individuals with Down syndrome are happy with their lives. 96% are happy with how they look. 99% love their families. I assume Ben’s in that 99.
97% like they’re brothers and sisters in 86% say it’s easy to make friends with others. I’d be curious how that compares to the general population and as you and I were chatting about this before the podcast and you were saying that, you know, some Down syndrome children that went on to get married and go get their education and they get their college degree.
And we were saying, I’d be curious the percentage of divorce between two individuals that have Down syndrome versus those that don’t. Because they just, they love unconditionally.
Kurt: They do. And I, I bet you cannot find any Down syndrome marriages that ended in divorce.
Greg: Or we were talking about, right, crime and harming others and yeah, because they just have such a pure heart. In fact, to demonstrate that pure heart, I’d be curious to just, tell people about how you took folks to the Pirate game and what that was all about. And in the eighth ending, I remember you telling me this vividly, what Ben did on the way out.
Kurt: Yeah. So, a few weeks ago, the pirates had Down Syndrome Awareness Night and we were first introduced to this when Ben was maybe two years old. And so, two of the folks that work on my team, Jackson and Coleen, had come to me with the idea of, “Hey, let’s, let’s organize a night at Down Syndrome Awareness Night for the Pirate game.”
So, I said, okay, you know what, let’s put together a list of people that we could invite and see how that goes. Now going into this, I’m thinking, okay, you know, I’ll buy 15 or 20 tickets to this game and we’ll go and have a good time. And as I started thinking about all the people that are important to Ben, the list ended up being just north of 70 that we had, I think it was 72 was the final number, tickets that Amy and I purchased. And we invited people to come and just celebrate Ben.
And I asked Ben, he actually chose a Hawaiian theme and so I emailed everybody, and everyone wore leis or Hawaiian shirts or shorts or whatever it was. And we had a really, really festive night where he was in his element. And we had actually Charlie who I alluded to earlier, he was there and a good friend of mine, Kurt Kondrich, his daughter, Chloe, was in attendance.
So, we had a really awesome time. And you know, the game dragged on a little bit and we ended up leaving in the eighth inning. And as Amy and Ben and I were walking out of PNC park, all of the different concession stands under the park were starting to close down for the night. So, there was nobody in line except the workers behind the counter. And Ben stopped at every single concession counter and he thanked the workers that were working behind the counter. And Amy and I have learned that when Ben is in the middle of his acts of kindness, we just let him go. You know, at first, we would try to stop and say, “Oh, come on Ben.” But I just, I stopped and I just let him do his thing because the looks on the faces of the people as he shook their hands — and I believe, I even remember one of the women was out behind the counter and he gave her a hug — that I just wonder what’s going on in their world at that particular time. That maybe that interaction with a
12-year-old with Down syndrome or the pat on the back, or the hug was just what they needed in their life at that particular moment.
And so, I let Ben go.
Greg: Let Ben be Ben.
Kurt: With certain restrictions, because we would have been at PNC park till after midnight had we really let him do what he wanted to do. But, you know, Ben, when we’re in public, there’s not a person in a wheelchair that he doesn’t stop to say hello to. Elderly people. He holds doors. And I’ve tried to teach all of my sons to be gentlemen.
Whether or not Ben, he obviously has the capacity to remember that because it’s, it’s just uncanny.
Greg: People are just happier when he’s around. You, I noticed in the office, like you watch Ben, Ben’s in the office today, you watch Ben in the office. Everybody sort of has a smile on their face and people just are genuinely happy or when he’s around.
I’m very, very confident I know the answer to this, because I’ve experienced it firsthand, but what some people may think is, “Holy cow, is that fair to my other children?”
Could you just talk about the impact it’s had on the other five Kimmich kids?
Kurt: Yeah. That, that that’s, you know, I tried to rank all of these positive attributes, and watching Ben make my other children more loving, more sympathetic. It’s opened their eyes to a lot of different things that I don’t believe that they would have been exposed to, had Ben not been their younger brother. It’s really heartwarming to watch, not only my children, but then my children’s friends become exposed to who Ben is.
And Ben has a very, very unique and special relationship with each one of his siblings in a way that’s very unlike any of the other siblings. And it’s, and it’s, again, it’s hard to explain, but it’s something that is so deep that it’s yeah — he has made, as I say in my email that I send out March 21st, Ben has made our family complete without a doubt.
Greg: Well we just experienced that, right? So, we were in Kurt’s office and I said, “What are the concerns, what are some of the concerns you have?” And you said, if something would happen to you and Amy, you worry what would happen to Ben. And out of the corner of my eye, I saw this hand go flying in the air and it was Katie.
Greg: Katie’s like, I got it.
Greg: And I’m sure if your other children were here, they would feel the exact same way.
Kurt: Yeah. I think now that as with each year that passes and, you know, my oldest daughter got married in December and she and her husband or Katie is a senior in college, Matt, we take to Grove City tomorrow — that I know without a doubt, every one of my kids would step up very gladly and very — you know, I bet you they would actually fight over who got to have Ben, I think that there would be a lot of fights and arguments because the others were hogging him. And yeah. So now that my kids are older, it’s less of a concern to me, but it’s still, for any parent with a special needs child. Yeah. Life after us. That’s a big weight on my heart.
Greg: So, in general, you and I were talking about just how people see the negative, and I apologize to you, because I hope you remember this story about your mom. And how when you found out your mom was sick — and this just shows you how, Kurt was talking about how he learned to look for the positive and things and how your mom was ill and how you looked at those days, instead of a burden of “I have to go to the hospital,” you looked at it as an opportunity to spend a couple more days with your mom.
Kurt: That’s right. And now that my dad and his health challenges, you know, it really sorta brings full circle the saying of, “Hey, enjoy each day that you’re given because tomorrow’s not guaranteed.” And, it’s a cliche, but it’s really something that I try to keep in the front of my mind. Because you know, I can’t believe Ben’s 12 and I’m sure that it’s not going to be too long from now and I’m going to say I can’t believe I’m going out to have a beer with Ben. He’s 21 or 30. Or whatever.
Greg: Enjoy every moment, right?
Kurt: Enjoy every moment.
Greg: So, I was talking to Jim Wilding, we were visiting last week about how we try to help people maximize moments. And we talked about how, you know how people say, well, “live your day as your last one.” I don’t know that — living everyday like it’s your last one. Maybe somewhat of a challenge, but if you could live only one more year, it becomes a little easier. Right? If you could
just live one more year and you live every year like it’s your last year, that’s probably a little more realistic.
Greg: And if you could live one more year?
Kurt: If I was living today as my last, I probably wouldn’t be here with you. No offense.
Greg: I think you would, I think you would! I think you would take your last day to be an advocate for people with Down syndrome, I do.
Kurt: For Ben. To put it on a podcast for all of eternity.
Greg: I do, because I can’t imagine receiving the news and hearing you talk about, first of all, being surprised that someone would say to you, you should cry with tears of joy. Sounds bizarre. And then for you to experience it, not only the positive effect that it has on your family, on you and Amy, but also your family. It’s been a delight to watch and I do believe it’s, it’s changed you for the better. Has made you a better husband, advisor, son, et cetera.
Kurt: My friend Kate was 100% right when she said she cried because God sent Ben to us. I can’t imagine life without him, quite frankly.
Greg: God bless Kurt. I’ve always found you to be an engaging and optimistic person, but I do feel like just watching your face as you talk about Ben and the blessings of Ben, I firmly believe it’s affected your family positively and have changed them for the benefit— for the positive.
What are some of the ways it’s changed you and how have you evolved as a person by experiencing and having the opportunity to be the father to Ben?
Kurt: I’m sitting here sort of laughing inside because this, this just came up within the last week. My son Matt, who just turned 19, is heading off to college. Something was going on at home and I, like I normally do, I sort of handle it. I just like let it roll right off my back. And he goes, “Dad, how can you be so patient all the time?”
So, I will tell you that Ben has certainly helped me become a more patient person, because I just don’t let the little things bother me. I just, I can’t.
Again, because I think of not only Ben, but all kids with special needs. And the challenges that they have from their appearance, perhaps, from the way that they are perceived in public.
And I see it, you know, I, when I walk with Ben, you know, I, I see how people look and watch us interact. And I always use that as a learning moment for anybody that might be watching me. So, empathy, patience, I think I’m a much better listener than I ever have been.
Greg: Were you always this positive?
Kurt: I’ve always been a positive person.
Greg: Yeah, I always remember…
Kurt: I always have. Maybe this is just me taking it to another level when you think you’ve sort of
Greg: You find the good in almost everything.
Kurt: I try to. Because my attitude is, what good is it gonna do for us to focus on the negative?
Kurt: You know, again, at home I always joke that, you know, the glass is always half full with me. It’s not half empty, it’s half full.
And I think of, of you know, again, I as, as I just sort of glance down as we’re talking with, with some of the, some of the different bullet points that I’ve included in my annual email where I see here, you know, Ben’s hugs make even the hardest of days seem so simple, nonverbal communication or a smile on his face or a pat on your back. And I have here: his gentle spirit and passionate soul are infectious. And that’s absolutely the case with my family and our other kids is they see Ben and his genuine goodness, and they can’t help but mimic him and do what he does. And you know, and we live in a world that just has a mental picture of what is “normal.”
Greg: There is no normal.
Kurt: No, but it always revolves around physical appearance, but not who you are as a human.
Greg: But life does become easier when you realize there’s no normal, everybody’s trying to become, there’s no normal, we all are unique in our own way. So, when you accept that, it becomes a lot easier. So, Kurt, thank you.
Greg: At Confluence we learn from you also, we appreciate you as an associate and we appreciate the impact you make on all of us every day and we are delighted that your whole family and more specifically Ben are part of our extended family.
Ben: Hi Dad. You’re my best friend.
Kurt: Best. Friends. Ever.
Greg: Aww. Gave a kiss.
Ben: Are we done?
Greg: Yeah, thanks Ben!
Greg: Thanks for listening. If you’d like to hear other subject matters that may be of interest to you, please check us out at ConfluenceFP.com/podcasts.